"Police can not shoot me" mentality

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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by knppel » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:14 am

In the context of our gaming environment, I believe it's less of a "police can't shoot me" mindset, but much moreso the practical "police won't just shoot at me for a silly reason".

Classic examples, the people hopping around trying to bait during police situations they are not even involved in: At a corner in Ganton or Willowfield, people would likely bait a quick bullet with such behaviour- simply because thanks to corpses despawning without a trace, killing someone off is the one solid way to make sure they don't start more trouble at your corner too soon.

Following this, people with such a mindset naturally stick away from groups that might swiftly and for good deal with them, and instead follow factions where cold bloodedly killing someone is not so much considered a heroic deed, but considered a potential reason for job termination and jail- such as the Police.

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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by Gurber » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:12 pm

Sorry my nigga but im not reading that essay
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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by hickok44 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:05 pm

Miss101 wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:19 am
Dan beaver wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:01 pm
Start reporting people who fail to role play fear and you'll see it happening a lot less.
I've seen a few times PD/SD reporting people for not roleplaying fear, but It it was almost always dismissed by the game admin handling the complaint with the same mentality "you're a cop, of course you're not gonna shoot him!"

I can't see where they're pulling that from, because IRL not a day goes by without the news mentioning another cop unloading a full mag into an unarmed person, and cops can get away with it by claiming they feared for their life. On LSRP however, you shoot an unarmed suspect - that's an instant termination from the PD/SD in 100% of the cases.

I think the administration has to start punishing people for not roleplaying the gun fear, regardless if the person holding the gun has a uniform or not.
To play devil's advocate, logically, the amount of instances IRL where a suspect has ran away while a cop has a gun pointed at them can only be equal or greater than the amount of instances a cop has shot a suspect for running away. So citing the amount of times it happens IRL doesn't really help your case.

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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by .kickback » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:58 am

An officer is allowed to shoot a wanted suspect if they do NOT comply with the officers requests. Walking or running towards a Law Enforcement officer when they have stated not to counts as provoking which in return the officer can shoot. However, nine times out of ten its the officer who decides whether to shoot or not, there are some that shoot and some that don't. Report players who fail to RP fear or who purposefully do it to avoid going to SACF.

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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by Stallin' » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:21 pm

up to you if wanna shoot me or not tbh.
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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by Hunter2k » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:32 pm

doubt cops shoot suspects IRL for running, it depends on the suspect really. If a murder suspect takes off when u know he's armed then that's pretty unrealistic but when a 15 year old takes off for a misdemeanor then I consider it fine.

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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by BlueX » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:06 pm

Hunter2k wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:32 pm
doubt cops shoot suspects IRL for running, it depends on the suspect really. If a murder suspect takes off when u know he's armed then that's pretty unrealistic but when a 15 year old takes off for a misdemeanor then I consider it fine.
Exactly this. I've seen a lot of situations where people ran from police at gunpoint. It's not unrealistic, it is what it is. If you want to run from the police then run, it's your choice and if you are a cop and you wish to shoot him and shoot him, but if it's an unlawful discharge of a firearm then you should take the consequences.

Usually, when a police officer fires their weapon it means that they feel that their life is in jeopardy or anyone's else life. Running from the police at gunpoint doesn't necessarily mean this and many people take this into account in real life because a police officer is supposed to follow the law and its procedures, while a criminal doesn't follow the law.

So yeah it's not unreal to see people running from police while at gunpoint, it happens.
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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by Paddy » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:10 pm

I think that each situation is different and there is no one given set of regulations that will suit every single incident involving law enforcement aiming a weapon at somebody. To say as a blanket statement that running from LEO gunpoint is a neglect to roleplay fear is ludicrous, because the circumstances for which that person is at gunpoint fluctuate quite drastically.

A man who has stolen a car is not violent. He is a thief. He may find himself held at gunpoint by law enforcement. For me, this man is more likely to run on account of the fact that he can reasonably make the assumption that the weapon is only being used as a deterrent rather than a tool to kill.

A man who is wanted for a murder is violent. If he finds himself at gunpoint, it is much more likely that he'll be shot if he runs, because the person taking aim considers the fact that he may kill again.

But these are two isolated incidents that don't include any other factors, such as alcohol or drug usage, the circumstances leading up to the standoff, the number of associates of the criminal, the number of fellow LEO's in attendance, the number of innocent bystanders in the backstop, the likely prison sentence for surrendering and countless other circumstances.

In the end, it's probably best not to worry about the potential OOC violations from running from an LEO, as it's impossible to gauge what is an isn't a breach of the rules, given the catalogue of different factors that can be thrown into the mix.

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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by josef » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:36 pm

Paddy wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:10 pm
I think that each situation is different and there is no one given set of regulations that will suit every single incident involving law enforcement aiming a weapon at somebody. To say as a blanket statement that running from LEO gunpoint is a neglect to roleplay fear is ludicrous, because the circumstances for which that person is at gunpoint fluctuate quite drastically.

A man who has stolen a car is not violent. He is a thief. He may find himself held at gunpoint by law enforcement. For me, this man is more likely to run on account of the fact that he can reasonably make the assumption that the weapon is only being used as a deterrent rather than a tool to kill.

A man who is wanted for a murder is violent. If he finds himself at gunpoint, it is much more likely that he'll be shot if he runs, because the person taking aim considers the fact that he may kill again.

But these are two isolated incidents that don't include any other factors, such as alcohol or drug usage, the circumstances leading up to the standoff, the number of associates of the criminal, the number of fellow LEO's in attendance, the number of innocent bystanders in the backstop, the likely prison sentence for surrendering and countless other circumstances.

In the end, it's probably best not to worry about the potential OOC violations from running from an LEO, as it's impossible to gauge what is an isn't a breach of the rules, given the catalogue of different factors that can be thrown into the mix.
This is well explained and the scenarios provided are good examples to consider.

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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by Sunshin_Choe » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:03 pm

Paddy wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:10 pm
I think that each situation is different and there is no one given set of regulations that will suit every single incident involving law enforcement aiming a weapon at somebody. To say as a blanket statement that running from LEO gunpoint is a neglect to roleplay fear is ludicrous, because the circumstances for which that person is at gunpoint fluctuate quite drastically.

A man who has stolen a car is not violent. He is a thief. He may find himself held at gunpoint by law enforcement. For me, this man is more likely to run on account of the fact that he can reasonably make the assumption that the weapon is only being used as a deterrent rather than a tool to kill.

A man who is wanted for a murder is violent. If he finds himself at gunpoint, it is much more likely that he'll be shot if he runs, because the person taking aim considers the fact that he may kill again.

But these are two isolated incidents that don't include any other factors, such as alcohol or drug usage, the circumstances leading up to the standoff, the number of associates of the criminal, the number of fellow LEO's in attendance, the number of innocent bystanders in the backstop, the likely prison sentence for surrendering and countless other circumstances.

In the end, it's probably best not to worry about the potential OOC violations from running from an LEO, as it's impossible to gauge what is an isn't a breach of the rules, given the catalogue of different factors that can be thrown into the mix.
The conundrum is that most of what you've illustrated here is applicable to the whole "fear RP" rule. If pure "realism" is the ultimate goal, another factor we need to consider is the fact that people simply don't respond the same to fear. Why has it been determined that freezing in place is the only way you can respond in fear when a criminal points a gun at you but you can run away if a cop does? The disconnect there makes no sense.

And don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to the "fear RP" rule. What I am against is the blind infatuation with the supposed "realism" on this server. The "fear RP" rule was NOT created under the grounds of realism or simulationism, because in real life it's NOT AT ALL reasonable make the blanket statement that people should all freeze in fear if they have a gun pointed at them.

This is why I say I absolutely hate the misled and obnoxious love with "realism" on this server. What the "fear RP" rule is there is to improve the narrative of the server. It's there to prevent people from playing LSRP like a shooting game or a car chase game. It's there to foster the creation of interesting scenes and help develop your characters. That is the strength of LSRP, it's a free-form roleplay server like this with practically no traditional RPG elements. It's not meant for "realism," (emulating the real world) as LSRP simply doesn't have the mechanics or the infrastructure to do so.

This is why the fear RP rule should be just as applicable to the ones police hold at gunpoint as it does the ones criminals hold at gunpoint. This will in turn help police RPers to creating more compelling, engaging and emergent narratives rather than being automatons who RP repetitive and generic stock scenes and get into car chases and shootouts which, let's be honest, a lot of cops fall for.
Last edited by Sunshin_Choe on Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by Sisca » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:22 pm

Sunshin_Choe wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:03 pm
Paddy wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:10 pm
I think that each situation is different and there is no one given set of regulations that will suit every single incident involving law enforcement aiming a weapon at somebody. To say as a blanket statement that running from LEO gunpoint is a neglect to roleplay fear is ludicrous, because the circumstances for which that person is at gunpoint fluctuate quite drastically.

A man who has stolen a car is not violent. He is a thief. He may find himself held at gunpoint by law enforcement. For me, this man is more likely to run on account of the fact that he can reasonably make the assumption that the weapon is only being used as a deterrent rather than a tool to kill.

A man who is wanted for a murder is violent. If he finds himself at gunpoint, it is much more likely that he'll be shot if he runs, because the person taking aim considers the fact that he may kill again.

But these are two isolated incidents that don't include any other factors, such as alcohol or drug usage, the circumstances leading up to the standoff, the number of associates of the criminal, the number of fellow LEO's in attendance, the number of innocent bystanders in the backstop, the likely prison sentence for surrendering and countless other circumstances.

In the end, it's probably best not to worry about the potential OOC violations from running from an LEO, as it's impossible to gauge what is an isn't a breach of the rules, given the catalogue of different factors that can be thrown into the mix.
The conundrum is that most of what you've illustrated here is applicable to the whole "fear RP" rule. If pure "realism" is the ultimate goal, another factor we need to consider is the fact that people simply don't respond the same to fear. Why has it been determined that freezing in place is the only way you can respond in fear when a criminal points a gun at you but you can run away if a cop does? The disconnect there makes no sense.

And don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to the "fear RP" rule. What I am against is the blind infatuation with the supposed "realism" on this server. The "fear RP" rule was NOT created under the grounds of realism or simulationism, because in real life it's NOT AT ALL reasonable make the blanket statement that people should all freeze in fear if they have a gun pointed at them.

This is why I say I absolutely hate the misled and obnoxious love with "realism" on this server. What the "fear RP" rule is there is to improve the narrative of the server. It's there to prevent people from playing LSRP like a shooting game or a car chase game. It's there to assist in creating interesting scenes and help develop your characters. That is the strength of LSRP, it's a free-form roleplay server like this with practically no traditional RPG elements. It's not meant for "realism," (emulating the real world) as LSRP simply doesn't have the mechanics or the infrastructure to do so.

This is why it should be just as applicable to the police as it does to criminals. This will in turn help police RPers to creating more compelling and engaging, emergent narratives rather than being automatons who RP repetitive and generic stock scenes and get into car chases and shootouts which, let's be honest, a lot of cops fall for.
You have to keep in mind the people running from the cops probably do it multiple times a day and don't rp any repercussions what so ever. Just yesterday me and my partner pulled over a cheetah and the dude was so engrossed into the girl in his car he decided to run over a $100 fine, and anytime we saw him driving around ganton a whole 10 minutes later, right where he ran from. If people want to run? Sure, it happens. The issues the fact people run to run, they don't run to roleplay, they don't run for the benefit of character development. They run to bullshit around.
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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by Sunshin_Choe » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:26 pm

Sisca wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:22 pm
You have to keep in mind the people running from the cops probably do it multiple times a day and don't rp any repercussions what so ever. Just yesterday me and my partner pulled over a cheetah and the dude was so engrossed into the girl in his car he decided to run over a $100 fine, and anytime we saw him driving around ganton a whole 10 minutes later, right where he ran from. If people want to run? Sure, it happens. The issues the fact people run to run, they don't run to roleplay, they don't run for the benefit of character development. They run to bullshit around.
Then you aren't even arguing against me. Wouldn't making it against the rules to run away while at a cop's gunpoint be a solution to the problem you demonstrate?

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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by Dan beaver » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:27 pm

If a gun is pointed at you, including by police, you should not be allowed to run. Just accept that you've been caught. It doesn't matter that people try to run sometimes in real life - they always get caught.

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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by Sisca » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:35 pm

Sunshin_Choe wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:26 pm
Sisca wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:22 pm
You have to keep in mind the people running from the cops probably do it multiple times a day and don't rp any repercussions what so ever. Just yesterday me and my partner pulled over a cheetah and the dude was so engrossed into the girl in his car he decided to run over a $100 fine, and anytime we saw him driving around ganton a whole 10 minutes later, right where he ran from. If people want to run? Sure, it happens. The issues the fact people run to run, they don't run to roleplay, they don't run for the benefit of character development. They run to bullshit around.
Then you aren't even arguing against me. Wouldn't making it against the rules to run away while at a cop's gunpoint be a solution to the problem you demonstrate?
Maybe I misunderstood your statement(s). I believe that should fall under most situations, including civilian vs civilian, not just cop v someone else.
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Re: "Police can not shoot me" mentality

Post by Sunshin_Choe » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:36 pm

Sisca wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:35 pm
Sunshin_Choe wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:26 pm
Sisca wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:22 pm
You have to keep in mind the people running from the cops probably do it multiple times a day and don't rp any repercussions what so ever. Just yesterday me and my partner pulled over a cheetah and the dude was so engrossed into the girl in his car he decided to run over a $100 fine, and anytime we saw him driving around ganton a whole 10 minutes later, right where he ran from. If people want to run? Sure, it happens. The issues the fact people run to run, they don't run to roleplay, they don't run for the benefit of character development. They run to bullshit around.
Then you aren't even arguing against me. Wouldn't making it against the rules to run away while at a cop's gunpoint be a solution to the problem you demonstrate?
Maybe I misunderstood your statement(s). I believe that should fall under most situations, including civilian vs civilian, not just cop v someone else.
Yes, then I agree with you.

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